Family Feud on Taxes – My Shot at Rocket
By Randall | January 15th, 2008 | Category: Taxes | 7 comments 1,840 views | 7 Comments » |
Family Feud on taxes | rocket finance
Rocket Finances has responded to my article "How Do You Want Your Tax Money Spent?" with some very strong rhetoric. Needless to say, the battle is on,..![]()
Corrections
Just a brief one. The article was on what I saw on Family Feud VERBATIM. I didn’t choose the categories or the actual answers, I just commented on them. However, having said that, I pretty much agree with what was chosen and in what order.
Let the Battle Commence
#5 Highways and Streets, Rebuttal - The interstate system is just that, INTERSTATE. Having the individual states take accountability for their own road infrastructures is one thing, but when you’re talking about a huge system that supports everyone, I believe it should be managed overall for a consistent system. If the money is passed on to the states directly, there’s no guarantee that the quality of the highway system won’t be affected. Rich states might end up having highways paved in gold, poorer states might revert to dirt roads. I don’t want to risk both the defense and industrial capabilities of the interstate system this way. If it were up to me, any highway that crosses one or more state borders would be under the federal organization. Anything else will be the states’ responsibility.
#4 Poor and Needy, Rebuttal – While it’s true that from an ABSOLUTE dollar amount, the DHHS budget is larger than the DOD’s budget, but that’s misleading until you look under the covers.
| Agency | DOD | DHHS |
| Total budget 2008 | $647,166 | $697,544 |
(in millions of dollars) |
(source Overview of the FY 2008 Defense Budget Request containing economic assumptions and historical current and constant dollar data series.) |
(source: HHS Budget in Brief (PDF)) |
When you take a look at the programs in DHHS that take up the money, Medicare and Medicaid combined take 84.4% of the budged amount. That comes to an outlay of $588,727MM for medical assistance for those already covered by Medicare/Medicaid. Are you suggesting that we shift the burden of support for these people onto the state?? That would work out to only an additional $11.774 BILLION dollars they would have to come up with, not to mention the increase because of the Baby Boomers nearing retirement age. Either that or are you suggesting that we start denying aid to people. (We’ll go with your family first if you don’t mind).
The issue has been brewing for decades, and it won’t be fixed instantly. In any huge system there are inefficiencies and bureaucratic rot, but abandoning the poorer and needy isn’t the America I want to live in.
Also, I would love to see your supporting documents that show that "Governmental policies tend to encourage greater dependence on the government".
#3 Healthcare, Rebuttal – As was mentioned earlier, we ALREADY spend $588 Billion on just CURRENT medical procedures and expenses (Medicare/Medicaid). What does that money buy us?
(source World Health Organization 2007 statistics)
- Life Expectancy – Male – 75, Female – 80
- Infant Mortality Rate – 7/1000 births
- Neonatal Mortality Rate – 4/1000 births
- Maternal Mortality Rate – 14/1000 births
- Physicians in the U.S. – 730 801
- Density of Physicians – 2.56/1000 people
- Nurses – 2 669 603
- Density of Nurses – 9.37/1000 people
Let’s compare these against the country with the longest life expectancy rate – Japan
- Life Expectancy – Male – 79, Female – 86 (+4 years for men, +6 years for women)
- Infant Mortality Rate – 3/1000 births (~50% decrease)
- Neonatal Mortality Rate – 1/1000 births ( ~75% decrease)
- Maternal Mortality Rate – 10/1000 births (~15% decrease)
- Physicians in the Japan – 251 889
- Density of Physicians – 1.98/1000 people
- Nurses – 993 628
- Density of Nurses – 7.79/1000 people
Japan is providing its’ citizens with health care that is prolonging their lives. They don’t have a ’socialized’ medicine model, but a hybrid system (some healthcare is provided by the government, while other healthcare is covered by private insurance, employers, and government subsidized programs). They have a higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and do it with less doctors and nurses. How is it that the United States, with all it’s GREAT medical procedures, and THREE TIMES the doctors can’t provide the same life expectancy numbers??
Japan is at the top, life expectancy-wise, but they’re followed closely by; Andorra(77/84), Australia (79/84), Austria (77/82), Canada (78/83), Cyprus (77/82), France (77/84), Germany (76/82), Greece (77/82), Iceland (79/83), Ireland (77/81), Israel (78/82), Italy (78/84), Kuwait (77/79), Luxembourg (76/82), Malta (77/81), Monaco (78/85), Netherlands (77/81), New Zealand (77/82), Norway (77/82), Quatar (77/78), San Marino (80/84), Singapore (78/82), Spain (77/84), Sweden (79/83), and Switzerland (79/84);
That puts the United States around 27th place. WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??
#2 My Pocket, Rebuttal – While having more money in the pocket is never a bad thing, none of the ‘effects’ you quoted have ever been verified as correct. The 1980’s Trickle-Down theories and Voodoo Economics have been interpreted and re-interpreted to suit those on either side. I don’t think it’s safe to attribute ANY sweeping statements on the effects of individual tax cuts on our economy IN EITHER DIRECTION.
Tax cuts are a short-term financial stimulus that can have long-range unexpected consequences. Having said that, I like having more money in my pockets too. But if more taxes gets rid of the National Debt, and keeps us from CONTINUALLY running the government in the red, I’ll write the check. Our government and leaders have been fiscally irresponsible for so long that it’s become institutional. And any candidate that tries to make a change IN ANY PARTY, is draped with the political albatross of "Tax and Spend Liberal". The bills are coming due, and the country is starting to come up short.
#1 Education, Rebuttal – Education doesn’t necessarily get the shaft, it just needs to be more effective. Teachers making less than garbage men doesn’t really induce the best teachers to teach. More money isn’t an effective strategy any more than the ‘test-everything’ mentality of the No Child Left Behind act.
Our school systems are getting old, and deteriorating. New schools aren’t being built fast enough to keep up with the flood of new students. The districts with good educational reputations are overcrowded with transfer students while districts with lower reputations suffer from money shortages caused by the SAME move in students away from them.
A fundamental reexamination in the way we educate mass student bodies is needed, and more effective incentives to teachers (carrot, not stick) need to be in place to promote good teachers and lure new graduates to the field.
Schools should be administered locally, but I’m doubtful about cirriculum being administered locally (I live next to Kansas, and the Intelligent Design discussion comes to mind). From my own point of view, watching my children go through the No Child Left Behind effects, the only thing I’m seeing is a cutback on the arts, and a concentration on test grades, to the exclusion of other subjects/education. We’re working at creating a whole generation of ‘good little workers’ that don’t know how to perform critical thinking and decision-making tasks. All they’ll be good at is following directions and working in their own little jobs. It scares me.
Now to Tear Apart Rocket’s Choices
Not really, but I liked the header,
#1 Defense – Defense is very important, I don’t disagree, but there are varying kinds of defense. Military and force options for defense are a deterrent. They should be the option of last-resort, but recently they have been front and center for much of our foreign policy actions. It perpetuates a circular effect; You have to have MORE defenses against the people you’re fighting against, because you’re making MORE enemies DEFENDING from those enemies. We have a HIGHER number of active terrorist groups AFTER the 9/11 incident than before. How does one exactly "WIN" a War on Terrorism??
#2 Civil Defense – Again, the question is "protect against WHAT exactly". More money for police and fire fighters isn’t a bad idea, but what exactly is the Department of Homeland Security providing that wasn’t there before, or is needed now?? It’s all scare-tactics to keep people voting for the ‘right’ party (no pun intended).
Other countries, England, Germany, Ireland, Greece, etc. have been dealing with domestic terrorism for decades longer than we have, and they haven’t whipped their own people into an anti-terrorist froth over it. A low-key, but continuous prevention policy has been fairly effective in these cases.
The Rainbow-of-Terror is a perfect example of a scare tactic. When HASN’T it been Yellow or Orange?
#3 Government itself – Couldn’t agree more. Upper officials in Norway make close to $1 Million a year!!! That prevents corruption, and also provides for WELL qualified candidates to fill the slots.
My only caveat for upping the pay rates for government employees is to reduce the paperwork and roadblocks for getting rid of low and non-performing government workers. I’ve worked in the government as a contractor and have seen people that do NOTHING on a daily basis, still receive their pay for decades. This is what causes the huge bureaucracies to flourish, the idea that you can’t be fired.
Increase pay/qualifications, but get rid of the ‘deadwood’.
(To those government employees that DO do a good job, I apologize and want to commend you. Government work in the U.S. isn’t the most glamorous or high-profile, but it is NECESSARY and VITAL to keeping the country going.)
Ok Rocket/Readers, let’s hear your views on this. Weigh-in with your views by commenting. I guarantee I’ll let any statements through (that aren’t spam).

Wow. This is a really interesting fight, er, debate!
I could probably write a whole post on how I feel, but I’ll just make a couple of points. First, I don’t have research to back this up, but my guess is that people in Japan live longer because they have healthier lifestyles. From what I understand, their diet is much more nutritious than typical American fare.
Also, and this is kind of an aside, the way education is funded just bugs me. I’m not sure about the national level, but at the state level where I live, the politicians fund all of their pet projects and save education for last. Then they whine to the taxpayers that there isn’t enough money to fund education, hoping to play on their heartstrings and get the people to vote for more taxes. It never works, though. I’d like to see them fund education first, and then come whining to the public about how they need money for counseling, because the legislature is so dysfunctional.
OK, the counseling thing didn’t actually happen in the state government, but a local city council ran up a $20,000 bill on counseling, because they were too dysfunctional to work together.
I’m probably not as hard-core as rocket, but the more the government stays out of my pocketbook, the better I like it.
I agree with Lynnae about Japanese having a higher life expectancy because of a better diet. Here’s an interesting article about a Japanese woman who was taken by ambulance to 30 different hospitals. She ended up dying before finding a hospital that would treat her: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421662/
As far as proof of Rocket’s comment “Governmental policies tend to encourage greater dependence on the government”, I can vouch for that. I am a “big sister” to a girl who’s mother, aunt, and a live-in friend are all on welfare. They continually get a job for a week or two and then come up with some lame reason for quitting the job. Three perfectly capable adult women in one household, all on welfare.
I agree with you on the federal government taking care of the interstate highways.
Anyway, good points on both sides!
I noticed you skipped over his point about how cutting taxes supposedly increases tax revenue — this is yet another claim utterly unsupported by data. Interestingly enough, When Bush (W) cut taxes twice in 2001 and 2003, tax revenues dropped significantly from 994 billion in 2001 to 927 billion in 2005.
The hypothesis that tax cuts increase revenue is an interesting hypothesis, and is actually probably true if taxes are ridiculously high, but recent data seems to suggest that our tax rates are nowhere near that point.
@Deamiter
I’m not sure if you were talking to me, but just in case, I didn’t comment on that point because I don’t know anything about that stuff
@Randall
I agree with you in #3 about cutting “deadwood”. I was also thinking that government jobs have really good pensions, much better than anything in the private sector. I would think cutting back on those would be a money saver (increasing the age of when they get benefits is what I’m thinking). I’m not trying to be harsh, but I don’t know *anyone* not in government who gets a pension. They’ve become outdated and caused a ton of money problems for companies like Ford and GM. Thoughts?
@Everyone,
I skipped over the part about reducing taxes = increased revenue, just touching on it with the ‘trickle-down theory’ and ‘Voodoo Economics’ statements. During the Reagan era, trickle-down theory espoused that if taxes were cut for business (i.e. higher-income people) that the money would ‘trickle-down’ throughout the economy. This theory was debunked by the fact that most wealthy don’t spend MORE money when they earn a little more. They already spend as much as they want. Giving them a LITTLE more doesn’t change their spending habits, ergo no trickle-down to the little guy.
As for Japan and their diet, I agree that the American diet is horrible, but our wonderful consumer economy and it’s prevalent advertisements encourage overconsumption. But on a comparison of medical systems, the Japanese system is still more cost-effective when you look at the number of doctors/nurses per capita. And it covers more of the primary care and preventative care areas that save money (and lives) down the line.
@Becky,
I believe that new(er) government employees have a plan similar to our 401k, but even more limited in choices of investment options. It’s called a Thrift Savings Plan. All things considered, I’m glad to have a 401k.
I don’t discount your experience with people that abuse the welfare system, but any system has it’s abusers. Many of the state Welfare programs have been changed to require more work and education to encourage people to get back in the workforce. I agree, that doesn’t give everyone incentive to do so though. But for those that truly need a ‘temporary’ assistance, it’s invaluable. I’ve been on welfare (briefly) myself. I didn’t stay on it for very long, but during those tough times, it greatly helped.